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| amyr6531 | Programmatic Questions | 3 | May 8 2008, 4:52 PM EDT by Megfish | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 28 2008, 12:56 PM EDT
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1. In this class, have we made a convincing case for the necessity of digital rhetoric as a separate methodology inherently deserving its own course title?
2. In terms of working in academia, have we determined who our research is responsible to? Are we responsible only to ourselves, other academics, a wider public audience? 3. If the internet is an endless procession of simulacrum, have we established a framework by which to evaluate what work needs to be done and what work is less useful?
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| grete | Final Questions | 1 | Apr 30 2008, 7:52 AM EDT by gogan | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 28 2008, 2:16 PM EDT
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1. If we decide that there is a such thing as a digital rhetoric, what are the implications of this for Comp/Rhet as a discipline? Should the existence of a digital rhetoric inherently change the discipline, or merely present another wing of it?
2. If we decide that there is a such thing as a digital rhetoric, what are the implications of this for using digital environments in the classroom? What kind of considerations are we then required to make--beyond its convenience--in using technology in education? 3. Do our theories change if we use the language of digital media instead of digital environments? Are these terms interchangeable?
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| aspatriarca | Wrap-up questions | 0 | Apr 28 2008, 1:44 PM EDT by aspatriarca | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 28 2008, 1:44 PM EDT
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1. If we take it as given that there is a difference between rhetoric in the digital and non-digital environments, how does the concept of a canon shift when we move from the non-digital to the digital? (linked to Question 6 from QFA 1)
2. Are scholars of rhetoric in digital environments more or less likely to appeal to analogues in the sciences (hard or social)? Why do you think this occurs? (linked to Question 19 from QFA 1) 3. Given our discussions in this class and others, would you classify digital rhetoric/rhetoric in a digital environment as being more modernist or postmodernist? Why would you classify it in this way? Can you actually classify it as one or the other? |
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| danleelawson | last questions | 0 | Apr 28 2008, 1:09 PM EDT by danleelawson | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 28 2008, 1:09 PM EDT
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1. Have we made a case for digital rhetoric as something substantively different than classical (oral) rhetoric or rhetoric in written (analogue?) environments? If so, what represents the basis for its discussion: affordances, interactivity, reader response, etc.?
2. Secondly, how does Gaonkar's critique of the "globalization of rhetoric" affect how we might look at RiDE? Does the fact that scholars are using the same hermeneutic tool (rhetoric) in somewhat indiscriminate ways in such an environment validate, or merely complicate, his argument? 3. Can the Web's instability (particularly compared to written discourse) actually come to resemble more of the classical rhetoric sense of orality and performance? If so, does Gaonkar's critique actually lose some of its force? |
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| Olympiakos | Last set of questions | 0 | Apr 28 2008, 11:07 AM EDT by Olympiakos | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 28 2008, 11:07 AM EDT
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1. Say one asks us about the courses we took this semester. We proudly say “Rhetoric in Digital Environments,” among others. How, then, do we explain the basic idea that lies behind the class’ programmatic assumptions? What is particularly “rhetorical” in digital environments, and what makes contemporary forms of rhetoric “digital”? In other words, how does structure (digital environment) and content (rhetoric) correspond and/or supplement each other and how did our readings enlighten us in that regard?
2. Say I succeeded in describing the basic elements of the nexus between the “digital” and the “rhetorical”. The next question would be: “And what did you do for this class’ project?” Well, here I feel that, at least theoretically, the programmatic question is the following: How does contemporary filmic production and performance relate to issues of identity formation and representation in general? 3. By answering (!) n.2 I would be facing another “easy” dilemma: Is it plausible to make the point that the art of writing as such is being gradually replaced by the more “modern” and more “trendy” art of making a film? If so, what t is the place, if any, of concepts such as persuasion, intentionality and, of course, interactivity in the new framework of Rhetoric in Digital Environments? |
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| jcover | Digital versus Non-Digital Texts | 1 | Apr 23 2008, 2:02 PM EDT by Megfish | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 19 2008, 8:51 PM EDT
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When Warnick talks about the interactivity of MoveOn.org, she mentions that "the site initiates the process by calling for vigils to be held, and then users respond by clicking on a link and finding out how to participate" (79). Is this any different from a reader looking at a poster about an upcoming event and responding by taking one of the little hanging tags with the contact information about it? In addition, she says that "text-based interactivity refers to the presence of various stylistic devices, such as the use of first-person and active voice" (73). Again, there are clearly non-digital texts that employ techniques such as first-person and active voice. Does interactivity vary, then, from a non-digital to a digital environment, and if so how? What definition(s) of interactivity from Warnick is specific to digital environments?
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| KaraLa | Interactivity Avoidance | 1 | Apr 23 2008, 1:55 PM EDT by aspatriarca | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 21 2008, 2:03 PM EDT
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Warnick states that “most [political] candidates avoid[…] highly interactive features” on their Web sites, “which she define[s] as forms of ‘human’ interaction” (72). Warnick identifies the reasons behind this avoidance as lack of “time or resources to respond to all of the electronic messages they might receive”, fear of “losing control over the campaign discourse”, and loss of candidates’ “‘strategic ambiguity that could mean losing the support of some voter” (72). Are there conceivably other reasons why politicians may avoid interactive Web features? Of the three explanations Warnick provides, which seems to be the most reasonable or obvious reason for the avoidance? Why?
What other Web sites, besides those hosted by politicians, might avoid using interactive features? Why?
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| jcover | Bad Rhetoric or No Rhetoric? | 1 | Apr 23 2008, 1:16 PM EDT by amyr6531 | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 19 2008, 8:57 PM EDT
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At the end of her discussion on MoveOn, Warnick offers advice for how the site might improve, such as providing clearer contact information (81). Later, when talking about Bush's site, she mentions that McCoy found that Bush himself was removed from the site and was "remote and unapproachable" (83). Yet, she still finds that both these sites joined people together for a common cause (87). So, were these sites rhetorically successful? If Warnick's definition of rhetoric rests on Burke's idea of identification, does the distancing of either the contact information or the candidate himself signal a poorly executed rhetorical attempt? Or is there a lack of rhetoric here? Or does rhetoric function in a different way, and despite these short comings of the sites?
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| gogan | Online Parody | 1 | Apr 23 2008, 12:05 PM EDT by danleelawson | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 21 2008, 1:32 PM EDT
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2. According to Warnick, “online interactivity played a key role in promoting identification by involving users in parodic discourse about the opposing candidate” (70). At the same time, Mikhail Bakhtin asserts that the parodic is “[o]ne of the most ancient and widespread forms for representing the direct word of another” (51). Accordingly, when you read Warnick in conjunction with Bakhtin (This is not such a huge jump, Warnick herself refers to Bakhtin on page 73), do you feel that online parodic discourse encourages a disidentification against the opposing candidate to which Warnick refers or any identification with that same candidate? Why or why not?
Bakhtin, Mikhail. The Dialogic Imagination. Ed. Michael Holquist. Trans. Caryl Emerson and Michael Holquist. Austin: U of Texas P, 1981.
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| gogan | Apples to Oranges? | 1 | Apr 21 2008, 4:06 PM EDT by grete | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 21 2008, 1:32 PM EDT
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3. What do you think of Warnick’s comparison of MoveOn.org, a “family of organizations set up to bring grassroots Americans into the political process,” to GerogeWBush.com, “the main Web site of President Bush’s second campaign for president” (77; 77)? Although Warnick refers to these two sites as “two campaign sites” would you agree with this categorization (87)? Why or why not? In what way could you also categorize Warnick’s move as comparing apples to oranges?
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| KaraLa | Warnick's Interactivity -- complete definition or limiting? | 0 | Apr 21 2008, 2:05 PM EDT by KaraLa | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 21 2008, 2:05 PM EDT
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Warnick identifies “user-to-system interactivity”, “user-to-user interactivity” between users, “user-to-user interactivity” between Web sites author(s) and users, “[c]ampaign-to-user or user-to-campaign interactivity”, and “[u]ser-to-documents interactivity” (76). Does this taxonomy account for all types of computer mediated interactivity? What other interactivities might exist, as digital technologies continue to change and emerge?
Would a system-to-user interactivity, in which the system was not controlled by any human entity/entities be considered “interactive” according to Warnick’s definition of full interactivity (69)? How is Warnick’s definition of interactivity thus limited? |
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| KaraLa | Burke's Persuasion | 0 | Apr 21 2008, 2:04 PM EDT by KaraLa | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 21 2008, 2:04 PM EDT
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Warnick draws upon Burke’s theory that “persuasion generally is aligned with identification between people” (70). How does this theory extend to communication between the individual Internet user and organizational or corporate Web sites – or between individual and sites that boast multiple authors?
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| gogan | Same Language = Same Location? | 0 | Apr 21 2008, 1:31 PM EDT by gogan | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 21 2008, 1:31 PM EDT
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1. Christian Weisser’s assertion that “Unfortunately, few compositionists know where ‘the public’ is located” (92) predates Barbara Warnick’s contention that “online interactivity is something that is highly valued, yet there is little consensus about exactly where it is located or what it is” (69) by five years. Nonetheless, might the similarities in the language both Weisser and Warnick choose illustrate a connection between the public sphere and the world wide web; between writing and interactivity? In other words, does a strikingly similar syntactic construction suggest that internet does, at least on a cognitive level, “serve as a platform of public discourse [which] has contributed to a reinvigoration of the public sphere,” as Warnick suggests (8)?
Weisser, Christian R. Moving Beyond Academic Discourse: Composition Studies and the Public Sphere. Southern Illinois UP: Carbondale, 2002. |
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| jcover | Burke and Interactivity | 0 | Apr 19 2008, 8:45 PM EDT by jcover | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 19 2008, 8:45 PM EDT
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On p. 70, Warnick uses several quotes from Burke defining rhetoric. The first talks about rhetoric as "considering identifications" (from Rhetoric 28), and the third as "a body of identifications" (from 26). I actually used both of these quotes in my paper on online rhetoric that I presented at CCCCs, and it strikes me that seeing rhetoric as identification, as Burke does, fits well with studying rhetoric in online environments. However, I'm unclear on this relates to Warnick's view of interactivity. She states in her conclusion that "interactive aspects of site content functioned to join people together in common cause against an opposing candidate and thus promote identification" (87). How does she get from point A (Burke's definition) to point B (her conclusion)? If user-to-user interactivity doesn't happen much on these sites, where does the identification come from?
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| Olympiakos | Turner's Concluding Points | 0 | Mar 31 2008, 1:12 PM EDT by Olympiakos | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 31 2008, 1:12 PM EDT
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1. I tend to agree with Pareto (1896) in that along with the formulation of economic policies, the actual political power has been traditionally yielded by elites. In the same vein, Michels (1911) has made the case that even within party organizations, it is always an oligarchy that rules. Is it plausible in our time to speak about a more “democratic elite” in the Manheimian sense, that is one that while is based on selection by merit, can potentially maintain a democratic background?
2. I believe that one of the most interesting points made by Turner in his concluding thoughts is the one that contrasts the “peer-to-peer utopia” with the perpetuation of patterns of injustice and suffering related to the New Communalists’ practices. (“Every time a white hippie comes in and buys a Chicano’s land to escape the fuckin’ city, he sends that Chicano to the city to go through what he’s trying to escape from, can you dig it?” ) How could the members of “a particular social class, bound together by education and race…” adjust their ambition to change the world so as to include new, but still inherently, political forms of consciousness. 3. I wonder if we want to touch on the issue of technological determinism. Do you see Turner as expressing a version (perhaps a softer and a more nuanced one) of technological determinism? Finally, is technological determinism a theory about technology or rather a theory about society? |
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| Olympiakos | From beards to Blackberrys | 0 | Mar 28 2008, 11:09 PM EDT by Olympiakos | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 28 2008, 11:09 PM EDT
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http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/travel/30hours.html?ex=1207368000&en=ec36785baa625e68&ei=5070&emc=eta1
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| Olympiakos | Questions | 1 | Mar 26 2008, 2:36 PM EDT by Olympiakos | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 26 2008, 2:34 PM EDT
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1.While Turner was mentioning “universal rhetorical loops” as well as networked learning systems, I immediately reminded myself a rather new “genre” of interdisciplinary scholarship. Last January, for example, some academics from diverse disciplines met to collectively study a show (fortieth annual Consumer Electronics Show which took place in Las Vegas) using a methodological style called “Swarm.” The concept behind “Swarm” was that events such as the CES could be studied by different scholars who, then, would combine their accounts toward a collective analysis. How much of those attempts are “the future,” and how much do they owe to the blending of cyberculture with counterculture would potentially suggest an interesting issue to pursue.
2. I would have to admit that I still tend to relate ethos with charisma. I wonder though how much of an “intellectual determinist” does this make me. I am not saying that if it weren’t for Brandt nothing of all this would have happened; rather I am expressing a concern on the circumstance that we crudely label as “the right man at the right time and the right place” (small wonder it is “man” and not “woman”.
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| jcover | Naming the Hacker | 2 | Mar 26 2008, 2:13 PM EDT by amyr6531 | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 24 2008, 11:23 AM EDT
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Turner quotes Brand who states that "when computers become available to everybody, the hackers take over" (117). When Felsenstein says "Don't avoid the word Hackers, Don't let somebody else define you," I thought of Bulter's concept in Excitable Speech of naming and the injury that it does. To what extent does naming oneself as a hacker resignify the term?
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| KaraLa | Attempts to Legitimate Work | 2 | Mar 25 2008, 1:07 PM EDT by aspatriarca | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 24 2008, 10:59 AM EDT
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On pp. 112-114, Turner notes that early network visionaries at PARC and other computer laboratories saw the Whole Earth Catalog as a “legitimator of their own work” (112). Ideologically, is it wise to attempt to legitimate one’s own work so early on in the development process? Does this act result, necessarily, in positive or negative outcomes? Why? Is the attempt to legitimize one’s work a natural tendency among scientists and scholars? Can individuals escape this tendency?
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| Megfish | Free Access? | 1 | Mar 25 2008, 11:50 AM EDT by grete | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 24 2008, 2:22 PM EDT
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On 112, Turner quotes Kay as saying, “we thought of the Whole Earth Catalog as a print version of what the internet was going to be.” Later Turner reemphasizes that the content of the catalog had already been browsed and selected (i.e. selectively chosen) by Brand. How might this idea of selective access inform Kay’s understanding of the future internet?
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